Patriots for Peace shocker… and then the REVERSE shocker July 23, 2006
I have to admit to being shocked to read Patriots for Peace and Citizens Action Group are protesting the President’s visit.
OK, OK, I wasn’t shocked at the protest, just where it was going to be held… at the home of Phyllis Arnold. That to me was the shocker and would have been a major coup of legitimacy for the anti-war group.
But, now, the REVERSE shocker is it looks like the offer from the Arnold’s has been rescinded. Read the Daily Mail article by George Hohmann about the reversal.
Phyllis Arnold is one of if not THE, most respected businesswomen in the state. She is admired universally for her ascension to one of the highest CEO positions in the region, as leader of BB&T.
So, you had to be wondering how the crazies (Patriots for Peace) and the craziers (Citizens Action Group) got Phyliss to allow them to camp out on the front lawn when Bush is in town.
But, still, I couldn’t imagine Phyllis allowing either group on her street, let alone smoking peace pipes around the campfire in her front yard. (Just teasing you Jim, Norm and Julie - don’t call me tomorrow!)
What was even more surprising is she and her husband would take such a huge step in outright opposition to Shelley who represents a significant swath of BB&T’s operations in the state. It just caught me by surprise when I read it. But, I’m happy to hear they reversed course and now won’t allow the spectacle.
I respect the Patriots for Peace right to protest and I like Jim Lewis. I’m not sure if there is an issue we actually agree on, but they have a legitimate right to oppose the war, or the President, or the fact that Starbucks charges $4 for a Grande or whatever in the heck they want to oppose.
What I absolutely despise and what I think is completely wrong is this supposed “Wall of Shame” they put up wherever they go, with the names of the troops who died in Iraq on it. I think that’s the true “shame”. After all, the parents and families never gave permission for their son’s and daughter’s names to be used as propaganda in opposition of the war.
I also think their giddy, near orgasmic reaction to death toll numbers is truly sad.
Outside of that, if the Patriots for Peace and whoever else want to protest the President’s visit, so be it. That’s what America is all about. And, the guests who are going to see the President have every right to stroll right on by, pay $4,200, get a photo with the President, and support our Congresswoman.
One final point… the head of Citizens Action Group was talking about how the President’s travel was so expensive and that money should be used to help war veterans. Either he doesn’t know or he’s engaged in hyperbole because the Capito for Congress campaign will pick up every cent of the President’s travel, not taxpayers.
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20 Responses to “Patriots for Peace shocker… and then the REVERSE shocker”
I respect these two “groups” right to protest as well. What I do not respect is their use of the names of service men and women without their or their family’s permission. Should we build large scale banners touting their (PfP and CAG)members “lack of service” to their country as well…I am sure that they consider the number of protests they have held and attended as, “service” but who fights for and defends their right to protest? Do they serve on their local fire department? Do they give blood on a regular basis? Have they served in the military, national guard, or reserves? They could do these things and cite “Concientious Objector” status and avoid combat roles…To date just over 2500 brave service men and women have lost their lives in Iraq - According to one news organization, over 30,000 Iraqis have been killed in sectarian violence; over 450,000 (a conservative estimate by the UN) Iraqi’s died at the hands of Sadaam’s Baath Party; 45,000 Kuwaitis died in 1990 when Sadaam invaded that country. On June 6, 1944 the Allies lost 16,600 men in one day in the, “Good War”. The New York City Fire Department lost 343 firefighters in a little over 60 minutes along with 47 police officers and 3,329 innocent civilians on September 11, 2001. Patriots for Peace should protest outside Muqtada Al-Sadr’s compound in the Siite Sector of Baghdad - or, better yet, the Citizen’s Action Group should have its been dinner inside the Sunni Triangle where they build car bombs that kill 50 civilians at a swath in markets. I say let the protest have meaning, make an impact, take the risk….But no, they won’t do that for their real goal is just to hear themselves talk….
vic,
i hope what you say is true “The Capito for Congress campaign will pick up every cent of the presidents travel”. Join me then in finding out what the true cost was. I’m sure you will as WV’s leading fiscal conservative.
I believe some superficial, token payment will be made. However, lets look at the true cost of his visit. There will be at least 2 other aircraft besides Air Force One. Will she pay that expense? Factor in the gas of the convoy of vehicles, salaries of the drivers, (probably as many as 12 vehicles will be assigned)as well as the extra secret service protection. Don’t forget the cost of secret service and other federal assets that for at least the last 2 weeks have been here doing background checks, casing the various routes etc etc. Include the background checks on the 200 invited guests for the welcome party at the airport. I’m sure there are a whole lot of other expenses that i can’t figure out but if Shelly really pays the true cost of the visit she will be losing a whole lot of money on this fund raiser.
vic,
norm again. just heard that secret service, the coast guard and dnr have been meeting to discuss closing down the bridges. also failed to mention that i presume shelly will reimburse the state for troopers, dnr and dept of highway time? Wonder what cash strapped charleston is having to pay its police in overtime?
sorry, norm again, again. just realized that the comments were not attributed to anyone the last 2 comments after mr. millers clear and thoughtful comments were from norm steenstra, executive director of WV-cag.
Guess I won’t attend the fund-raiser for Shelley.
My last $4,200 went for several months of food, shelter and clothing, not to mention being conned by Cheney and the oil cadre into $3. a gallon petrol.
But, really, Vic, your characterization of PFP and CAG just illustrates your lack of credentials as a civic leader. I guess, though, it’s good to remind people of this periodically, so no one will mistake you for a serious public servant. It’s so telling when all a conservative has to offer are smear tactics and no real substance.
And maybe Phyllis, along with many business people, are starting to see the economic wreakage wrought by the Bushies, and realizing that it will eventually trash their bottom line.
I just read in the Daily Mail that the Arnolds have retracted their offer…I wonder if the press about Mrs. Arnold’s position with BB&T was a driving force in that wind. As for Mr. Steenstra’s comments, he apparently isn’t aware that the cost of protecting the President is an almost constant. There are not, “extra” agents assigned. There is a dedicated Presidential Protection detail that is assigned. This is what they do - whether he is in Washington D.C. or Ottumwa, Iowa. They move, shadow, and protect the President under all circumstances. As for the extra DNR; Charleston, P.D.; and State Police protection, much of that is practice and drilling in preparedness for the unforeseen. Yes, there are costs involved and expenses, but much of it has already been offset by tremendous federal funding for homeland security… Will Patriots for Peace and the WV CAG reimburse the State and/or City for their protection from counterdemonstrators? Did John Kerry reimburse the State of West Virginia for the same and/or similar expenses when he came stumping for votes in 2004? How about Bill Clinton - did he pay back the State when he stopped in Huntington? (Here’s a heads up - the answer is, “NO”) Do PfP purchase and have a permit every time they set up their banner? Have they compensated the families for their use of names and other information on their banner? I am sure that the Capito campaign will fully comply with the law and their obligations under it on re-imbursing the State and/or the Federal government for the costs of this trip. Fair is not fair if it is applied unilaterally…I think the real issue is that the Republican candidtate for Congress is raisng funds for a spirited campaign on the issues while the Democratic Candidate has only just over $25,000 on hand to wage his campaign (Chas. Gazaette, 07/24/2006) I commend Mr. Steenstra for his opposing views but, again, I challenge you to raise a legitimate issue…not babble about his partisan views based on the nature of the visit…
From an emailer - Sen. Sprouse, in this newsletter you described the Patriots for Peace as
“crazies” because they oppose the war in Iraq. (They have done so from prior
to the war’s start.) However, given that there were no WMD, and given that
Saddam was not involved in 9/11 (See the 9/11 Commission report), and given
that the majority of Americans now believe that the war was, and is, a wrong
war, who is “crazy” and who is not. It seems to me that your minority view
leaves a lot of unanswered questions. But mainly, there is this one: Why
would a WV State Senator call, by extension, over half of the population of the
U.S. “crazy”? When you get down to it, that itself seems crazy.
Beyond that is your depiction of the Wall of Remembrance as a “Wall of Shame.”
If you really believe that’s what the Wall amounts to, then you would agree with
me, wouldn’t you, if I said that we ought to plow under the Vietnam Memorial in
Washington? Frankly, I think that’s folly. I feel that the human cost of the
war ought to be always before us? Don’t you agree? The Vietnam Memorial is the
same thing–a memorializing of the dead. And no, we don’t ask for permission to
publish the names of the dead. But if there is something unsavory about that, I
suppose that you will soon post a message to this newsletter in which you
denounce the U.S. Department of Defense for publishing the names of the dead.
Where do you think the Patriots for Peace get the names?
Your characterization of the Patriots for Peace as having a “…giddy, near
orgasmic reaction to the death toll numbers…” is the lowest of low blows.
Sounds sophomoric, in fact. I have attended the Wall Vigils many times. I
never heard anyone “giddy” about a death. I challenge you to name any member
of the PFP who has ever expressed delight, or any other positive emotion, about
the war or the dead.
Sen. Sprouse, if you so strongly support the war in Iraq, why don’t you join
up? I don’t know your age, but you are a pretty young fellow and I expect the
Army would love to have you. You may not be aware, but since the start of the
War in Iraq so many mothers and fathers of young men and women (”crazies” to
you) have been advising their sons and daughters not to seek military service,
that the U.S. military has raised the age of joining up from 35 to 42. Are
you in? i’m from West Virginia where talk is cheap. Let me know if you’re
going to join the military. I’ll drive you to the recruiter’s office. And if
you don’t mind to do me a small favor, would you kindly take a poll of those
attending the Bush visit, and ask how many of thier sons and daughters are
serving or have served in the War in Iraq? I’ll buy you a dinner if it’s a
percentage that reaches double figures.
Last, despite your statements to the effect that you appreciate the PFP’s right
to protest, I wonder whether you respect that right suffiently enough, and are
sufficiently sure of yourself, to publish this message in the next issue of
this newsletter. You have been challenged. Cave, or don’t cave.
I found Tom Miller’s comment (no. 1, above) to be interesting, though purile. He does two things: First, evidently to undermine their credibility, he puts forth the wrong assumption that the Patriots for Peace is comprised of conscientious objectors, of of people who are afraid to fight, or who just won’t fight–people like the president’s daughters (and the President himself, when you get down to it). But that’s wrong. The first president of the PFP, Rev. Jim Lewis, is himself an ex-marine. And others who routinely come to help hold up the Wall of Remembrance, people like John Palmer and Julian Martin, also are military veterans. But suppose they weren’t. Would that make the war a right war? Hardly. Second, the list of the thousands who have died in various wars does not justify the preemptive war in Iraq. One doesn’t follow from the other. I have concluded that some may make themselves feel temporarily better by engaging patriotism-lite. But the Patriots for Peace deemand more from their government than swagger and continued needless deaths. Mark Twain said, “Patriotism is supporting your conntry all of the time, and your government when it deserves it.” He was right.
from an emailer - I would like to address a statement you made when you refered to the Patriots
for Peace wall.
“What I absolutely despise and what I think is completely wrong is this
supposed “Wall of Shame” they put up wherever they go, with the names of
the troops who died in Iraq on it. I think that’s the true “shame”. After
all, the parents and families never gave permission for their son’s and
daughter’s names to be used as propaganda in opposition of the war.”
Senator, with all respect to the parents of these brave young men and women,
they are NOT just the children of their parents. They are the children of all
of us. They are the children of America, and they are America’s future.
because of this, I feel that that Patriots for peace has every right to have
those names on the wall.
Sincrely,
Mike
from an emailer…
Of course, if you call it “Wall of Shame” in your mind that would indicate that
you really do think this war is shameful — shameful because we were lead into
it on the basis of false information.
I love folks who leave anonymous posts…
Yes, Sadaam’s regime was not directly linked to the specific events of 09/11/2006. But he did offer $100,000.00 to every family of a, “martyr” who killed an American (UN Commission on Terrorism Report, 2000); He did try and build a reactor to refine nuclear material into weapons grade material - the Israeli’s blew it up; and now every jihadist from Jordan; Syria; Iran; Saudi Arabia; Oman; Yemen; Somalia; and elsewhere is trying to get into Iraq to, “kill the infidels”…Americans. Unfortunately, their rules of engagement don’t include provisions about civilians, children, women, etc. They don’t prosecute and/or expose their atrocities in their major media. If you would like to see how they treat prisoners a brief search of the web will show you the video that they gloriously display of the mutilated, demasculinated, and beheaded bodies of the two marines taken from a check point. Perhaps you would like the policy of appeasement and have these types of events occur here in America? You have the freedom to speak but you do not have the right to use the names of soldiers who took an oath for your twisted perspective. How would you feel if someone gathered the names of you ancestors and started parading them around on a banner and said that they were the, “Legacy of Cowards” - maybe you are not a coward, but free speech is free speech and if you have the right to desecrate a person’s honor in death, then why shouldn’t we all. Those soldiers on your banner took an oath and stood up for what they belived in. The Department of Defense posts the names of the fallen out of honor and respect, not to foment protest or for you and PFP to bastardize into your own message. I have had the honor of interacting with many service men and women who have come back from Iraq and they feel like they are making a difference. We don’t see the good on the news or in the media and you don’t choose to see it because of your bias. War is not pleasant for anyone, soldiers and/or civilians. What would have to happen for you to step up and defend your freedoms? - tanks rolling in Charleston?…a loved one being blown up by a fanatical group?…Where do you draw the line? I offer you the same or a similar challenge. I will drive you to the airport and buy you a ticket to move to France where your opinions are shared. You can protest all day long and be part of a nation that has a very short memory of its past…a nation which was twice invaded by following a policy of appeasement and one which inflamed all of Indochina in the 1950’s and started the Vietnam War…
Further, at the time of the start of the war over 80% of Americans approved of the actions. in July of 2003 over 70% of Americans supported the war in Iraq. The way we found out that there was no WMD was actually go in an see - you seem to lose sight of the fact that Sadaam refused to let UN inspectors check…you also seem to lose sight of the fact that he failed to comply with over 200 UN resolutions including 14 from the UN Security Council…Oh, and there were those twelve (12) years of diplomatic initiatives in between the Gulf War and the latest conflict where ole Sadaam chose not to cooperate with the world community….Read your Walden and find your Utopia…The rest of us will live in the real world…
And Senator Sprouse, what are YOU feeling for the thousands of American servicemen - not to mention the countless Iraqi civilians - who have died? Apathy? Indifference? The Patriots for Peace want to remember the names and identities of the dead - but to you, the dead are apparently nothing but statistics at which to shrug. I am amazed at your callousness.
I know for whom I will NOT be voting when the next election comes…
Mr. Wyatt, if you are going to assign a term for my comment, then please learn how to spell…it is “puerile”. Patrick Henry stated, “There is never a right time for war although we do not always have a say in the making of wars…” Sir Winston Churchill stated to the House of Lords in 1939 after Hitler invaded Poland, “Are we to be but spectators of this conflict only to be roused from our stupo once the blood of our countrymen has been spilled…” America was roused from its stupor by September 11, 2001; by the attack on the USS Cole; by the kidnappings and murders of Americans like Daniel Pearl; by the littany of open propaganda decrying for the murder of Americans in a global Jihad. Bill Clinton attempted twice to take out Osama Bin Laden with cruise missiles…This is not a republican war…it was almost unanimously supported in a bipartisan vote in Congress. The liberal figureheads John Kerry; Jay Rockefeller; Joe Biden; and Hillary Clinton voted for the war…Hillary Clinton is opposed to an immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq. I noticed that you, Mr. Wyatt, had left you name out of those who has previously served in the military… Every soldier’s desire is to promote peace…but they also recognize that peace is, at times, costly…
Just a note I heard on the radio the other day that more people paid $4200 to get in to see Pres. Bush, than showed up for free to protest. Just something to think about it.
GOD BLESS
BUDDY
Who are the Patriots for Peace?
Look at the pictures.
Left over wrinkled hippies trying to relive their glory days of the 60s when they stuck it to the man,man.
from and emailer…
When I read about about deaths in Iraq or Afghanistan (American or otherwise) I feel incredibly sick and sad. I am so sad for the potential those lives held, now extinguished, and I grieve for their families. I do not ever, ever get orgasmically excited. Rather, I am filled with overwhelming sympathy.
Vic,
I almost hesitate to get into this fray, but a couple of things you said in your posting were particularly offensive.
First of all, I agree with the person who said that if you are calling the Patriots for Peace Wall of Remembrance a “Wall of Shame,” then you must be ashamed of the war itself. After all, if there weren’t an Iraq War, there will be no need for our Wall of Remembrance.
Secondly, and in further defense of the Wall, I just want to remind you that folks here in the United States spend a lot of time and money to remember those who have died. Just visit any cemetary, mausoleum, or columbarium.
Third, I want to share a bit of my experience with holding the Wall. Occasionally, we are visited by soldiers who have been to Iraq. What those soldiers tend to do is look for the names of their buddies on our Wall. I’ve been witness to some emotional moments.
Finally, I do not know anyone in the Patriots for Peace organization who gets either “giddy” or “orgasmic” over these deaths. In fact, the person who is our scribe really has a hard time doing that job. She realizes that every name on the Wall represents some mother’s child. As for myself, I make a point of saying a prayer for each soldier’s family when a new name appears in the Gazette.
Vic, let me share with you one thing the Patriots for Peace has done for Iraq vets. You may actually change your mind about us. Last Wednesday, we held a bean dinner coincidental with the $4,200/couple Capito fundraiser. Our charge was $4.20. Because of a bunch of extreme generosity, we were able to raise over a thousand dollars. We are sending those funds to the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. That organization is building a hospital that will be attached to the Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio. It will serve catastrophically disabled Iraq War veterans. What have you done for such veterans lately?
The mistake you made in your posting, Vic, is that you spoke of that which you do not know. You don’t know us at all. You don’t know why we do what we are doing. You didn’t do your homework. I can only hope that you handle other aspects of your life, and particularly your public service, in a better fashion.
Chuck Wyro — you are my hero!
Thanks for all of the posts on this thread that make a lot of sense.
Protesting is A-OK with me! I think we need to let GW know what we think of his leadership (misguided leadership) and his policies. I personally would never pay $4.20 to see GW, ok honestly not even .42 cents. For those who wanted to go see him and pay $4200, that’s fine. They’re crazy, but whatever floats their boat. I respect him only because I respect his office/position. It was the way I was raised. But as for him, I don’t like him….don’t respect him. PERIOD
I have met Rep Capito a few times. She is quite nice and seems to be a very smart woman. There are some issues we don’t see eye to eye on, but I thought she had potential. I am a little concerned though that she would bring Bush in for a fundraiser. Just makes me go, hhmmmmmm…
[...] Remember Lewis’s article next time you see him and his crazies out on the streets. They believe we are to blame for the terrorism, not the terrorists. They believe the terrorists who drug the charred bodies of our brave soldiers through Arab streets, bombed Marines in Beirut, slammed planes into the World Trade Center, and hijacked airplanes are just frustrated at American injustice. They believe that Israel shouldn’t be able to defend itself and in like manner, neither should the United States. They understand the plight of terrorists who blow themselves and innocent civilians up or strap devices on mentally challenged children. [...]
Mr. Sprouse,
As the mother of a female soldier who landed on a dark tarmack in Iraq within a week of the initial Shock and Awe, I find your comments offensive and disgusting. Any respect I previously held for you before dissolved into thin air as I read your apparently drunken comments. To treat such a horrible situation with the flippancy exhibited here demonstrates why our democracy is in grave danger of being replaced by the tyranny of shallow, greedy capitalists. May you, and those you support, be soundly defeated in your next run for office.