Kanawha Table Games: Count all the votes… and count them again August 14, 2007
Well, of course all the votes should be counted.
In another strange twist of in this already bizarro election, it was reported yesterday on MetroNews and WSAZ that 64 early votes in a heavily “Vote No” precinct in Sissonville weren’t properly secured and were not counted.
If the early votes trend to the same percentage as the Saturday votes in that precinct, the gamblers lead will be cut to a slim 15 votes as we head into Friday’s canvass.
Wow.
I haven’t agreed with much of what well-paid racetrack consultant extraordinaire John Cavacini has said recently, but this statement is as true a one as I’ve ever heard… “Kanawha County is split right down the middle on gambling.“
Amen.
This election certainly was one to remember.
But, look, all the votes need to be counted despite what the gamblers say. Of course, the gamblers don’t want them counted. It could swing the election into range where the canvass could change the outcome.
But, despite what the gamblers may want, the votes need to be counted and certainly election law in our state favors the voters. And, if they try legal shenanigans to keep the votes from Sissonville out of the election, you could be looking at a full-scale rebellion, right here in Kanawha County.
Look, even the people who voted for the referendum want all the votes counted. After all, if it ends up the track loses by a few votes and it ends up that the track went to court to keep votes from Sissonville from counting… well, good luck in two years trying to get that referendum passed, no way, no how. The people of Kanawha County (both for and against) would remember the track going to court to not allow their votes to count. NOT a good idea.
Obviously, they should be counted.
And, after they are all counted on Friday. Well, they should be counted again.
With four known mistakes out there (a total of four precincts and 219 early voter ballots that were not counted at the precinct), maybe there was a fifth mistake made.
Or a sixth.
And, maybe enough to swing the election either way.
And, I’ll say this despite what the canvass says on Friday, whoever wins or loses, a recount should occur, simply to make sure another mistake was not made and there is no doubt who won and who lost this election.
Just a quick aside, there was an odd occurrance as I left Voters’ Registration the night of the election. As I walked out, I saw Gil McClanahan and a WOWK cameraman outside filming two random ballot boxes that were laid against the outside wall.
This was AFTER all the ballots had been counted (but, before the 155 extra early votes had been tallied).
Gil and the cameraman was filming the ballot boxes as a police officer came out, grabbed the boxes, and took them inside.
I never heard the disposition of these boxes, it’s possible they included the 155 extra ballots, but my guess is there would have been three if that were the case. Also, no matter what, it was odd to see ballot boxes totally unsecured just leaning against the outside of the building.
But, whatever the deal with those boxes and whatever happened with the 64 that were just found, they all should be counted, period.
It is theoretically possible that the early voters could actually swing the election to the Vote No side going into the canvass. It is also possible it could widen the lead for the gamblers. But, either way, this election needs to have a recount, whatever way it ends up.
In addition, this should be a beacon to legislators who totally blew putting this election together.
In their haste to get it passed and get their fix of additional gambling money, like a addict on heroin, they really, really made a mess of this election.
They used different procedures than in the past, different dates for notice, and worst of all (and the “good-government” Gazette has been completely silent on this point) absolutely NO disclosure required from either side.
OK, another quick aside, am I the only one who finds it SLIGHTLY ironic that the Gazette editors nearly throw themselves off the Virginia St. rooftop because they don’t have disclosure of whether Doctor X’s office prefers Donut Connection or Krispy Kreme…. yet a couple mil thrown around by the gamblers with absolutely no disclosure isn’t even worthy of a shoulder shrug?
But even though the Gazette may support the non-disclosure of campaign spending in this election, it was an outrage and should never be allowed to happen again.
I can’t remember EVER seeing an ad (actually from some anti-gambling group) with NO disclosure on the ad. None. I don’t know that anyone even today knows exactly who ran it.
Ridiculous.
Then, on all the billboards, the gamblers weren’t required to ad any disclaimers? And, they weren’t required to actually tell the people of Kanawha County how much they were spending to try to buy them off?
Again, ridiculous, and it needs to be changed for future special elections.
But, until then, let the counting… and recounting… begin.
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26 Responses to “Kanawha Table Games: Count all the votes… and count them again”
Kent Carper in charge of counting provisional ballots is akin to Tipper Gore counting the Florida votes in the 2000 election. I heard him on the radio this morning saying that “a good deal” of the provisional ballots won’t be counted, based on the history of provisional ballots. HE’S ALREADY SETTING US UP, FOLKS!! I’ll give you three guesses as to whether the uncounted votes will be yes or no votes, and the first two guesses don’t count.
If Carper had any integrity left, he’d remove himself from the counting completely. He’s too “in bed” with the gamblers and cannot be trusted.
Carper said on the radio Saturday night that typically 60-70% of provisional ballots count as good. The other 30-40% are by law disregarded because the voters weren’t registered or some other irregularity.
In their desire to push through bad legislation to increase their profit margin, the gambling industry is now reaping what it has sown in denying West Virginians statewide the opportunity to vote on expanding the Lottery to include casino games. With the slots parlors and now table games at some racetracks, if the people of West Virginia were asked today if they approved of the Lottery in it’s present and expanded form, I would venture to say it would fail. With all of the gambling initiatives that have passed in West Virginia, we continue to go backwards economically, now ranked 50th (last) in the nation. As discussed with another legislator, if the gambling industry is bent on disenfranchising the voters of Sissonville, then I wouldn’t be surprised if a disenfranchised voter from that precinct who followed the rules and voted appropriately, would not seek to file a challenge to throw out the entire kangaroo election. The table games bill referendum election with the 33-three vote lead is certainly no mandate for the gambling industry. The community was clearly divided on this issue. If there are lessons to be learned through this experience it is that big things can happen with a small group of committed people who truly believe in the cause. And, it shows that every vote matters!
Hoppy Shores should also remove himself. Mr. Shores has publicly endorsed the passage of the referendum.
Vic, what are the odds of defeating Kent Carper when he is up for re-election??
I heard several people say last week that they did not want to be denied the opportunity of gambling if they choose to do so. They wanted table games to become legal. I know drug users who could use the same argument, they don’t want the opportunity to get stoned on drugs to be taken away from them, they want to legalize drugs. Gambling and drugs are very addictive and destructive, so if we are going to legalize one then why not both? I wish someone other than (pro gambling)Kanahwa Co. Commissioners were in charge of these questionable ballots. I just heard that poll workers were going to be questioned under oath about the 64 uncounted ballots. These Co. Commissioners should also be required to vow under oath to count these ballots correctly and honestly.
B.K.
Thank Goodness the Supreme Court appointed Bush before Tipper got a chance!!
Another sterling analogy!
If this goes to court, Vote YES wins. WV courts ALWAYS come down on the side of taxation, pensions, unions and big Government, ALWAYS
Each of you need a lesson on how canvass works. The Board of Canvassers will not even know if the provisional ballot is a yes or no vote until after it is decided on whether the ballot should be counted or not. The Board of Canvassers are given an envelope stating the reason of the provisional ballot and then they decide whether it should be counted.
Also, the ballot boxes that Vic referred to that were at the Voter’s Registration Office on Saturday night that the policeman had were not boxes with ballots in them, they were boxes that hold the voting booths for the precincts. They were left at a precinct and the officer brought them to Voter’s.
Let’s get our facts straight before we start accusing people of having no integrity.
Very distressing and concerning. We need to remember that the presidential and congressional elections have in the past been similarly stymied by rabid cheaters and power mongers.
it’s ugly and it needs to stop.
no wonder many people do not vote. they see that cheating by the bought and paid for “winners” is what counts.
I’d bet there would be no issue on counting the 64 votes if they were from a City of Charleston precinct…The issue that they came from an area that went overwhelmingly “No” now makes it an issue. I also agree that, ethically, Carper should step out of the canvass…He, based on his public statements, clearly lost his impartiality…but what is ethically right is not the dems style…
I talked with our County Clerk here in Fairmont and she indicates that people need to remember that the only official count is what the Canvassing Board decides to count, and until that is done all numbers are unofficial anyway.
Therefore, the fact that the 64 votes (early votes from one precinct, = their share of the 12,000 early votes countywide) were simply not counted BY THE PRECINCT WORKERS since they missed the envelope that had been sent out TO THE PRECINCT by the County Clerk. But when the real canvas begins, the only official count, they will be available for count. (They were never lost or misplaced, or outside the normal vote security system. They were simply inside the precinct’s materials out and back.)
…UNLESS pro-gambling Commmissioner Carper somehow moves and gets a second for a motion to officially refuse to count the 64 votes.
Consequently, we might suggest a show of support Friday morning at 7 a.m. (or whenever it actually starts) to be witnesses of the public (whose servants they are), that the Canvasing Board of the three county commissioners not do something so stupid.
If Commissioner Carper starts to move to disallow the 64 because he suspects they’ll break 64/35% liek their home precinct, that would be the critical moment to see whether we have the rule of law in Kanawha County, WV.
Should be fun!
The Vote Yes ads also didn’t use the word Table Games on the majorty of the ads Check the billboards—vote Yes for Kanawha County — the flyers (of which there were about one a day in the mail)I only got one that used the word table games. It was like a whole different election they were promoting ALL the vote NO signs used the word table games because that is what we were voting on
Do any of you have the guts to ask Vera McCormick on her opinion of table games? She’s the one running the vote count.
You MUST remember, any motion proposed by Commissioner Carper will get a second from Commissioner Shores.Both were on record for supporting the expansion of gambling!!Both should not participate in the canvas.
(”canvas” -> “canvass” above)
Thanks, olfrt, for confirming what I suspected.
Considering what a bully Commissioner Carper seems to have a reputation for being, many County Clerks from around the state are hoping to show up early Friday morning to lend their moral support to Vera McCormick who will be under great pressure from him. I heard he has already severely criticized her, and yet she did nothing wrong. In fact, it was she who discovered and reported properly the uncounted ballots (plus yesterday’s news that are another 300!)
If I lived anywhere near Charleston, I would be there since this narrowly-decided vote will help determine the future of West Virginia.
Joy, excuse me if I don’t trust Kent Carper on this issue. He’s only been shouting from the mountaintops about how great gambling expansion is and letting everyone know how fervently he wants this bill to pass. Does that sound like someone who should be overseeing the counting of ballots?? Why don’t we just get Danny Jones to come in and count few?
And John A., once again your history is flawed. No matter how many times the FL votes were counted and no matter who counted them, Bush won every time. …and that’s a FACT. I suppose you’d have been more comfortable with President Gore?
I agree that every vote should be counted, even if it takes a recount or more than one to do the job right.
BUT where were these Republican voices during the infamous Florida “recount”? As I remember, the mantra then was, “The votes have already been counted. The election’s over. Period.”
Not exactly logically consistent, is it?
To the No Name above, Vera was and is smart enough to keep her opinion to herself. Un-like some others that publicly express their support for the expansion of gambling, and now have compromised their creditability, Vera remained neutral.
Your implication was stated only to place doubt, try again!
A “mistake” was made by not advertising the election to get this over with months ago, a “mistake” was made by not counting the 64 votes, and now another set of “mistakes” were made by not counting hundreds of other votes. Hmmmmm…………
To Ed Taft:
Republicans only started saying that the 2000 election was over after the ballots had been counted several times, each time yielding the same result…a victory for Bush. The problem was that Gore & the Dems wanted to literally manufacture votes from, of course, Gore-friendly districts. I can’t believe we are STILL having this discussion in 2007. Amazing.
Back to the topic: Are the gamblers and their minions REALLY starting to attack Vera McCormick? REALLY??? What a sad and pathetic demonstration of just how desperate these people have become. Gambling advocates, ask yourselves the following two questions:
1. What is Kent Carper’s position on table games?
2. What is Vera McCormick’s position on table games?
If your answers are anything other than “for” and “I don’t know”, in that order, you are not being honest with yourselves or the rest of us.
Would that such a large segment of the population were so passionate about REAL economic reform such as tax cuts & elimination, tort reform, and tax law reform. Instead, they get hopping over…gambling. Folks, aren’t we even a little bit better than that???
B.K.
I went back and checked my history: you are right! My apologies! As it turns out, the U.S. Supreme Court had *nothing* to do with ending recounts in Florida! It was all a myth created by the liberal media! You see, the liberals wanted to undermine the state’s rights platform of the Republicans, so they just made it *seem* that the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the Florida Supreme Court with regards to this specific state issue.
And would I have preferred a President Gore? Of course not! In fact, not only do I think that Bush//Cheney has been the best administration in the history of the United States, but I’m trying to lead the way in getting Bush/Cheney to run for a third term. (or at least Cheney/Bush). Not only would a third term send a strong message to terrorists that we won’t surrender and will continue to fight, but it would be a boon to conservatism.
And before any “surrendercrats” try to say that it isn’t constitutional, I’ll just say you’ve been drinking too much kool aid from the same liberal media who “said” that appointing Bush/Cheney in 2000 was unconstitutional! (Plus, that’s what signing statements are for, right?)
And before you say i’m being sarcastic, BK, please tell me if you are either FOR the third term of Bush/Cheney OR you want to cut & run. And I dare you to give me any good non-liberal reasons for opposing a third term for Bush/Cheney.
First, let me start by apologizing to everyone who reads this blog because I must have been drunk and been posting on here at some point. I just don’t remember saying that the U.S. Supreme Court had nothing to do with ending the (many) recounts in Florida in 2000. However, we all know that John A. seems to have made picking my words apart his own personal crusade, so he must be right when he says I said it. Right??
Second, John A., I can give you a great “non-liberal” reason why a third Bush/Cheney term isn’t even being considered by me or anyone else. It’s called the Constitution of the United States. You may want to review it from time to time.
Third, and last, a sincere apology for apparently steering what was a discussion about the Table Games vote into a discussion about the 2000 election. I used the Tipper Gore analogy, and that stirred up the Bush-haters. It was completely unintentional on my part because I honestly (but naively) thought the 2000 election was history. Apparently it’s still a fresh wound on some Bush-haters’ behinds. I recommend a little peroxide and a band-aid to heal it so you’ll STOP HARPING ABOUT THE 200O ELECTION.
The constitution is always what the liberals say when they want to bash Bush.
NSA Wiretapping. Presidential signing statements “interpreting” Congressional laws. Disenfranching voters. Torture.
Liberals always whine “Oh, that’s unconstitutional!!”
What did the founding fathers say about presidential term limits? NOTHING. However, terms limits are a 20th century “addition” to the constitution, just like the “addition” to allow the federal government to tax income.
Thank you, BK, you finally showed your true “surrendercrat” colors.
Let’s all get behind a third Bush/Cheney term. This war on terror is too important to let people like BK discourage the true conservatives who see the importance of winning the war on terror.
Which American citizen(s) have had their phones wiretapped by the federal gov’t with no just cause?
Who has been tortured?
Which American voters have been disenfranchised?
Please provide examples to support your (even if they are disguised) accusations.
Imagine how ineffective it is to be called a “surrendercrat” by someone who never supported the war in the first place.
B.K.
I’m still waiting for a non-liberal reason to avoid supporting a Bush/Cheney ticket (or Cheney/Bush) in 2008. Also, which liberal are you talking to? Or, are you just posing rhetorical questions to avoid my scrutiny?